The month of my wedding, Randy called, asking me not to go through with it. We both felt really strongly about things being just and things being fair, and leveling the ground for people who need it. Just to let them know that I understand how huge of a loss this was. It didn’t go as expected. Old never happened for him. I still see him in my dreams. It always does something to my face. That’s a great question. I worry about him every time he makes the three-hour drive from Atlanta to Albany, Georgia, where I was born. And I just — I found it so hard grieving and not having anyone around me understand how huge of a loss it was, because they just didn’t know him. This week’s essay was written by Marlena Brown and read by January Lavoy. We never had an off-limit topic, including police interactions with people of color. Someone emailed me this article. For what reason, I don’t know. Oh, well, he was a hospice volunteer who stayed with my mother while she was passing. Love stories cut short by the unexpected live on in alternate endings. Modern Love is a weekly column, a book, a podcast — and now, in its 16th year, a television show — about relationships, feelings, betrayals and revelations. He is 6 feet 4, dark skinned, hawk-eyed and curmudgeonly. And I think in certain measures, it’s kind of necessary. What was that for you, to receive almost instantly upon already dealing with the piece coming out, with all of these really revealing and emotional emails from people who knew him so well? [LAUGHS] I do, actually. Modern Love in miniature, featuring reader-submitted stories of no more than 100 words. We’ve had the protests, a lot of violence. When I told him I was looking forward to dinner, I meant it. It would be a hard conversation, but it would be a hard conversation worth having, because I think at times like this, it’s so easy. “‘Old Never Happened for Him,’” Kathryn JarvisKathryn lives in coastal Georgia. Racism exists on a spectrum, and those microaggressions I’ve experienced — being asked why I always look so angry, or finding out a man has stopped seeing me because his family doesn’t want him dating a Black woman — may seem masculine to him, but cut me deep after a while, enough small slices to cut off a limb. Yeah. Modern Love is a weekly column, a book, a podcast — and now, in its 16th year, a television show — about relationships, feelings, betrayals and revelations. Time passed. That broke my heart. Something I think I had been waiting for for almost a year it was just being able to connect with people who knew him and be able to grieve with them. How crazy can he be? Thank you so much, Marlena. And then for here we are, a year and change after he passed, to have him pop up in, of all places, the romance column of The New York Times, it was just like one last surprise from him. He came from good Irish Catholic stock, but had been a bit of a prodigal son, and was slowly making his way back through daily prayer, Bible reading and meditation. I’m curious what — since so many of your conversations with him were about police and about race, I’m wondering what kind of conversations you would be having if you were together? Hello. And having other people who think that is in a way healing, and it’s affirming for me. But I wasn’t expecting to open the inbox and come across all these, you know, very tragic stories, but also very ubiquitous stories. Often, I can see him falling on the side of, you know, police officers. That really wasn’t what it was about. So much has happened since then. The biggest trauma for a lot of people is losing someone they love, and so they often sit down to sort that out in words, and to try to make sense of it, and often to try to memorialize the person and honor the person. They threw him on the ground and they handcuffed him. The wedding happened, life progressed, my husband died. I don’t normally do my editor’s calls, you know, on video. Feeling election stress? But two days later, during our first phone call, he broke out of any box I tried to put him in. Politics were another story. You know, I think a lot of people might have been turned off. Feeling election stress? I hear you. That even though I’m like, we’re political opposites, I get that, but I’m like, have you ever considered running for office? I never asked him much about growing up with a father who was a cop. He stopped me in my tracks and wasted no time. And I think in that way, it’s kind of liberating and inspiring too. New episodes every Wednesday. You know, we didn’t even identify him by name in the piece. That morning, my phone literally just started blowing up. Do you feel like he would be a good person to be talking to now, or would it be a harder conversation now? The next day, I opened the article. I’m a sucker, so I fell for it. Here I was, on my way home from work, a block and a half from my Manhattan apartment, already mentally having shed my shoes and bra. I wonder if that truth holds for those like me, who teeter on the edge of that slippery slope, trying like hell not to fall, while wondering, isn’t it just easier to give in? So —. If I had to guess that a reason for him chasing me down the street that day, it was the lipstick. And I remember one particular conversation we had about police interactions, and it was something that I had gotten riled up about. [LAUGHS]. When are you going to let me take you out?”. Special Thanks to Julia Simon, Nora Keller, Mahima Chablani, Laura Kim, Bonnie Wertheim, Anya Strzemien, Sam Dolnick and Choire Sicha. At first, I glanced at the title and thought, oh, it’s another fireman story. These two stories about a man and his dog may help. Because that is what people actually need. I could tell she must be very special to Steve because she got to know him very well, which wasn’t an easy thing for a lot of people. I’m a snob. I would dive into a debate that should have been contentious and belligerent, but never was. I think the biggest shock for me was actually how many submissions were about death. Hosted by: Daniel Jones and Miya LeeProduced by: Kelly Prime and Hans BuetowEdited by: Wendy DorrMusic by: Dan Powell“‘Old Never Happened for Him,’” written and read by: Kathryn Jarvis“Firefighter Chases Woman Down Street,” Audm narration by: January Lavoy and produced by Ryan Wegner and Kelly RogersExecutive Producer, NYT Audio: Lisa TobinAssistant Managing Editor, NYT: Sam DolnickSpecial thanks: Nora Keller, Mahima Chablani, Julia Simon, Laura Kim, Bonnie Wertheim, Anya Strzemien, Joanna Nikas, Choire Sicha. I had noticed this about him before he told me about any legacy. As a wife and a mother, I have learned how to tell the truth. Some guy was using my image to con women online, so I messaged him. And the police officers were white, and the boy was Black. Love will sound a little different this season. And he said, “My dad and uncle used to work out of the precinct a few blocks away.”. Listen to “Driveway Elegies” — stories of heartache and home. And I was like — [STAMMERS] — my brain didn’t even know what to do with that. How do you know Stephen? Photo. All he wants to do is sit on a porch, drink beer, and watch “The Flash.” But thanks to our country’s legacy of racism, his very being is perceived as a threat. Credit. I was like, that’s his impression about police. Which was great, until I could no longer keep my eyes open at work. It is. And it just struck me how much he actually cared about people. Modern Love hosts Daniel Jones and Miya Lee explore the complicated love lives of real people through conversation and storytelling, based on the weekly New York Times column. Modern Love Podcast: When Getting Old Never Happens, Hosted by Daniel Jones and Miya Lee, produced by Kelly Prime and Hans Buetow, and edited by Wendy Dorr; music by Dan Powell; read by Kathryn Jarvis and January Lavoy, Modern Love Podcast: Zawe Ashton Reads ‘Confronting Race, Religion and Her Heart’, Modern Love Podcast: Ncuti Gatwa Reads ‘Why Can’t Men Say “I Love You” to Each Other?’, Modern Love Podcast: Lorraine Toussaint Reads ‘Race Wasn’t an Issue to Him, Which Was an Issue to Me’, Modern Love Podcast: Hasan Minhaj Reads ‘Researching Jenna, Discovering Myself’, Modern Love Podcast: Saoirse Ronan Reads ‘Grappling With the Language of Love’, Modern Love Podcast: Jameela Jamil Reads ‘How ‘Lolita’ Freed Me From My Own Humbert’, Modern Love: True Stories of Love, Loss, and Redemption, Tiny Love Stories: True Tales of Love in 100 Words or Less. We had nothing in common, and he was going to be as dumb as a brick. Yeah. Every day, we each worried about our own father’s safety. I’m scared that some state patrol officer will see my father’s big hands and long limbs and think he has to “fear” for his own life. I bought the house.”, “Firefighter Chases Woman Down Street,” Marlena BrownMarlena works in book publicity in New York City. He was an unstoppable force, while I, arms crossed, eyebrow cocked, remained an immovable object. And here was this firefighter — a bald, white, middle-aged New York City cliche I had past on the sidewalk with his buddies, rushing to catch up. And boom. But at the same time, too much of that it becomes an echo chamber. Times subscribers are invited to join Modern Love for a free evening of performances, videos and special guests, celebrating the new “Tiny Love Stories” book. I realized abortion was a right I would readily claim and could not in good conscience declare myself anti-abortion, if I was so ready to choose it for myself. This week, the Modern Love podcast revisits an essay about the need to acknowledge race in interracial relationships. You know, as I was reading it, I was just like, oh my God, this is Steve Brady. My roots are in the South — I am a descendant of slaves — and I’m always looking for somebody to say something stupid about racism so I can lose my mind. I later learned the truth. After his death, while sitting in my apartment, I asked him if he could hear me. We also have swag at the NYT Store and two books, “Modern Love: True Stories of Love, Loss, and Redemption” and “Tiny Love Stories: True Tales of Love in 100 Words or Less” (forthcoming). Yeah, I was just reading them on my phone, and I just started trying to respond to every single one of them. That’s what I thought was so beautiful about her story was — their relationship is very interesting, because I’m glad that Marlena was able to give Steve the chance, you know, to open up. So imagine my shock when, seven months after we stopped seeing each other, I googled him and found his obituary. Crossing into Manhattan, he let it fly that he didn’t think racism in New York City was as bad as people claimed. The reality of it, discovered in such a casual way, broke my heart a second time. The world seemed darker without him. And also to Ryan Wegner and Kelly Rogers at Audm. After dinner, we strolled through the center of Tarrytown, jabbering nonstop. Instead, we drifted apart because he, as he put it, was like Jack Nicholson’s character in “As Good as It Gets”: not ready for a long-term commitment and unsure he would ever be ready. I might put some books in between my mic. I only had to read the first sentence or two before I knew the firefighter in this story was my brother. Because I remember like, just kind of listening to him talk about his involvement in — like, in his union at work or like in town councils. When he asked me how I knew, I said, “You never looked at the drink menu.”. So I’ve been working on Modern Love since the very beginning, but Miya, you joined five or six years ago. Which is why I always know when my husband is lying. With each date, another debate. Love stories cut short by the unexpected live on in alternate endings. So in that pillow fort you’re building, do you have any seltzer by any chance? He shocked me by knowing Emory University, my alma mater, saying, “That’s where they shot ‘Into the Wild.’” He was a travel fiend. He’s going to think about this moment. Like literally, tried to leave every place that he entered a better space than the way that he found it. I wish I had. There’s so many raw feelings lately. You were reading them on your phone and —. And I think it serves, for me, like a reminder of what’s worthwhile in the world, having these relationships, you know, while we still have time. And like, we were just coming at it from two different points of view. There are so many stories. In February, within hours of her piece about the firefighter (named Stephen J. Brady) publishing in Modern Love, The Times received a flood of emails from people who knew him well. We moved on. And I was like, we need politicians like you. On their first date, no topic was off-limits. The family members and friends of the firefighter who were featured in the episode include Trish Brady, Jill Butler, Brendan Lee, John Luongo, Chuck Jankowski, Dorrie Jankowski and Christopher Treacy.Want more from Modern Love? No, and he would be like, yeah, you know what? Yeah, like four or five texts of it from different people who I used to work with from the fire department. His defense of police officers made sense because these were no longer abstract issues. I, a shiksa. Our tiny love story was written and read by Kathryn Jarvis. At the same time, I was just weeping. That one sentence, as casually as he let it slip, created a huge shift in my perspective. These two stories about a man and his dog may help. I think about that a lot. But I always in the back of my head think that he had — he always managed to surprise me on some of his opinions, or things that he was willing to kind of accept and listen to. When they had a chance to show him something different, I’m like, they chose wrong. He and I carried the weight of our fathers, his a cop, mine a Black man in America. It was about this young boy who was 10 and was watching his father get arrested. If grief is the price of love, I am unable to pay. So when I started getting some of your emails, I was getting a haircut. And then, when talked about his lack of eyebrows, that cemented it. “I was still working, it was expensive, I lived five hours away, all valid reasons not to make the purchase.” But when Randy died, her perspective changed: “Life is short, he was gone. And I think it makes sense, given the fact that you would want to write about loved ones you lost or are losing. Watch the TV series and sign up for the newsletter. He served, while I went from Sorority Sue to protesting hippie. When he let loose about how officers have a hard job and sometimes “unfortunate” things happen, it took all of my hard earned Southern charm to answer diplomatically. I know he touched so many lives and was special. He never took my suggestion, but there’s that. They disagreed on a lot of things: She was a “bleeding-heart liberal”; he was a “conservative libertarian.” He “came from good Irish Catholic stock”; she called herself a “hopeful agnostic.”, When the firefighter chased her down the street to ask her out, she pinned him as “a bald, white, middle-aged New York City cliché.”. Even though we hadn’t lasted, the way we had bridged the political and cultural divide was refreshing. Randy was a good Jewish boy. Steve, he had his own opinions that were very strong, and I think that created some friction between him and a lot of other people with him. But he did his reading, which is why I respected when he had an opinion. It was love. Today’s episode is about the space they found in each other — and the unexpected aftermath of their breakup. So I wanted to ask you about the morning the piece went live on The Times website, within hours, we started getting emails from people who recognized this firefighter. And I think Marlena probably has a lot of strength. Really appreciate it. As we approached the Summer Stage entrance, we passed two patrol officers who were eyeing everyone’s comings and goings. And to this day, I can’t tell you why I decided to give him my phone number. Some lemon seltzer. Hosts Daniel Jones and Miya Lee explore the complicated love lives of real people through conversation and storytelling, based on the weekly New York Times column. “I think you’re a beautiful woman. That was their immediate response. Oh, well he talked me off the ledge when I thought I was at rock bottom with my drinking. I am a hopeful agnostic in a wrestling match with the God of my childhood. Unfortunately, we get turned off in those situations. An avid music fan, he wanted to visit Macon, Georgia because of the Allman Brothers. Because he just — he really was one of those types of people that you just don’t meet every day. Everybody at his wake was kind of coming forward with this different story of how, oh, how do you Stephen? Of course, not five minutes later, standing alone in my apartment, I convinced myself that this date would be a disaster. I wish I had the time and patience to write a book of those stories. It had happened in Georgia. And everything was just this, like, shock of you thought you knew the guy, but there were a million different pieces to him. I think at the end of the day, what made it work, or why we were able to have productive conversations, is that we both — when it came to our core values, like the things that we thought were important, we were actually coming from the same place. When Dan asked Marlena what she and Stephen would be talking about today, she said: “It would be a hard conversation, but it would be a hard conversation worth having.” “When it came to our core values,” she continued, “we were actually coming from the same place.”. After spooky things started happening in our new house, a scary thing happened in our marriage. People say addicts can walk into a room and spot other addicts. “Honesty is linear.” Relationships require work and redefining, year after year. Surfacing somewhere in hour two of our first date, conservative libertarian (him) versus bleeding heart liberal (me). I knew it was him from the first sentence. Love will sound a little different this season. I feel a certain sort of way about police relationships with African-American people — particularly Black men here in the U.S. And then that’s real. There’s something about grieving by yourself that’s really hard, because by the time he passed away, we had broken up. The fact that he was a firefighter, the fact that he did that, the fact that it was Manhattan —. What surprised you the most about what the content was, what was coming in, once you started reading submissions? Because unlike mental illness, or even abortion, I had living, breathing skin in this particular game. I get firefighter stories all the time. How I Got Caught Up in a Global Romance Scam, Tiny Love Stories: ‘I Had a Lot of Feelings and Nowhere to Put Them’, A Man (and Meals) Worth Losing Sleep Over, Tiny Love Stories: ‘We Call Ourselves the Smalls’, Tiny Love Stories: ‘Do I Always Tilt My Head Like That?’. In my heart, I knew Randy and I would end up together when we were old. The executive producer of New York Times audio is Lisa Tobin. He was a hell of a lot more interesting than I, in my snobbery, had given him space to be. On our first date, we discovered that we both came from families of addiction, alcoholism, substance abuse. He hoped to hike down through Gibraltar and work his way into northern Africa doing volunteer work along the way. The Lord may eventually pin me down, but he will need to pop out my hip to do so. What if the fastest path to a committed relationship is to actively avoid one? But I didn’t with him, instead pointing out that racism is not only about extreme acts like burning crosses. He went quiet at that — a sign I would later understand to be him seriously considering what I had said, because yes, happily, there were more dates, and even more debates, each one digging deeper into controversial issues. Listen to “Driveway Elegies” — stories of heartache and home. She recently published a memoir titled “A Red Door.” Randy, the college boyfriend mentioned in her Tiny Love Story, continues to live on for her. I’m seeing you for the first time, I think. What I needed was context for the firefighter’s point of view, which I got one warm, summer evening when we met in Central Park for a concert. So he didn’t act defensive when you would bring up stories that people would ordinarily be defensive about? I believed that too for a long time, until I thought I was pregnant after a night of being drunk in my 20s. I’m married to a New York City firefighter and my brother was also one. And you can get so caught up in, again, thinking that you’re right and thinking that this is the only point of view, that sometimes stepping over and kind of talking to someone from the other side — as long as it’s respectful, as long as you are recognizing that we’re both complex and we’re nuanced and things are complicated — that can be healing as well. I figured, he’s a civil servant. Today’s essay is “Firefighter Chases Woman Down Street,” published in February 2020, written by Marlena Brown, read by January Lavoy. “Honesty is linear.” Relationships require work and redefining, year after year. And I sent all of those along to you. [LAUGHS] And my poor hair stylist was like, are you OK? So this was back in February. — friend from the firehouse, and I laughed and I opened it, and then I cried after I read it. Music by Dan Powell. Modern Love Podcast: When Getting Old Never Happens Hosted by Daniel Jones and Miya Lee, produced by Kelly Prime and Hans Buetow, and edited … He’s going to take that through the rest of his life. This was life. Highlights. Back in the car, city-bound with abortion the topic, he said his Catholicism kept him from viewing the act as anything but murder. Not racism, not abortion, not substance abuse. My father was born in southern Georgia in the 1950s, and like a lot of men of his generation, he struggled with addiction. As a recovering evangelical, I get it. Thanks for bringing back a piece of my brother to me. Nevertheless, we dated in college, happy until the Vietnam War intervened. And when I fled outside in search of escape, there were two firetrucks. When it comes to forbidden love, a “romantic plan isn’t enough.”. Somewhere in the middle of being distracted by what I thought was his lack of eyebrows, I realized that I neither wanted to lie to him, nor could I find any real reason to say no. “I was hesitant to buy the house I now live in,” she said. That night, I got very drunk. He died, as the author says, suddenly last year. You’re right. To be honest, I was so close to shutting him down. The “Sex Education” star reads an essay about the oppressive codes regulating male behavior. Modern Love is produced by Kelly Prime and Hans Buetow, and edited by Wendy Dorr. The “Velvet Buzzsaw” actress reads an essay about interracial relationships and self-acceptance. And lo and behold, he’s like, yeah. The cook would arrive after midnight and whip up a Michelin-worthy spread. But yeah, it’s interesting challenge to figure out how to get that in in a way where that’s not the sole focus. I do. We also learned that spirituality served as an anchor for us both. The firefighter and I met on one of the rare days I decided to wear lipstick. Like, you want to bond with people who feel the same, you want to make sure that your feelings are being affirmed. I accept this about myself. I knew he wasn’t on either rig, but their presence at that moment made me think, yeah, he heard me, just as he always did. “But don’t you think —” he would start, knowing good and well I didn’t think whatever was about to come out of his mouth. The host of “Patriot Act” reads an essay about how past trauma informs the present. He hadn’t managed to escape that legacy, telling me he was now eight years sober. This was personal. Interestingly enough, one of my brother’s friends just texted me a link to it without any information, just a link to the article. When it comes to forbidden love, a “romantic plan isn’t enough.”. [LAUGHS] In his passing, we found so many aspects of his life that he kind of kept private. They need someone who goes in there and cares. He was afraid of having a marriage like his parents’ often strained union. He had died suddenly on vacation, circumstances unexplained. It’s pretty good, except that there is some construction, it seems like. Steve and I agreed on a lot of things, and politics was not one of them. It’s such a reminder of how fleeting love can be in relationships, and yeah. Like, it’s going to involve death, but it’s not just about the fact that death is sad, or you know, how’s it part of the story, and how’s the story about something else, really?